wow, this one is quite odd

yeah, it is.

the center box is the first one that i have filled

me too.

yep

this is a good one...

ummmm! hard

lol

center square as well...

This is the first time that I have played. Does it make a little sound if you are correct?

i think it makes a sound when you enter something

it doesn't necessarily mean you are right (you don't find out til you're done)

thanks

if you are wrong, it will highlight the violated area

wrong, compared to what you already have plugged in

Done! :)

:o

:o

stuck

Not sure if anyones here but I'm done....

done. not bad.

hmm. must be missing something obvious.

I bet it's anumber Boric.....lol

yeah, lots of them.

haha, its ok, im missing it too

aha, the comedians are online

Lifes too short to be too serious Tony..

Oh I'm not serious

Anyway its 06:40 here so I'll go and tangleword or sommat... Good luck to you all.. Tale care, be happy & smile.. Lifes too short (((hugs)))

6:40? NZ?

England

hopefully not too short to finish this puzzle

lol

doh. 06:40 not 18:40

we'll see about that

I hope not or my boss will be miffed I didn't turn up for work!

Leave you all to it... tc :)

finally, 40 minutes

Cya Tony.. congrats

oh man, i blew something major

id have to admit that i am right there w/ ya

id have to admit that i am right there w/ ya

sorry, for the double

This is my first sudoku........I think I am going to become the expert of the start over button

dont worry, i was the same way when i started sudoku, but sooner or later you finally get the hang of it

I'll bet I messed something up... cuz I'm cruisin

I <3 Reeses.

that's where i was at

OK, so lemme ask ya'll a question.

w0rd?

the empty sections are the speed trap

I just finished one for the first time!!

I try each number in each 3x3 group. Then I do rows. And then I do columns. Does anyone do it another way?

You have to look at all possibilities.

congrats Mark

done. phew.

same thing stubie, but just a dif order w/ those things

except, im not having much luck 2night

i wish i weren't drunk

I wish I weren't stupid

i wish i weren't retarded

i wish i were an Oscar Meyer weiner

thats what i really want to be

'cause if i were an oscar meyer weiner

wow, quite the aspiration in life

the everyone would be in love with me!

:)

great harmony!

I wish wishing could make wishes come true ..

so back to being stuck

do u know about the red & green numbers? they can help

ya, my entire screen is filled with them

lol w0rd

but im still stuck

i don't use red numbers for some reason

me neither

Maybe that's why you're stuck... clear them out and redo them. I find that the green numbers (I don't use reds) are very distracting.

i dont use the green numbers all that often

I agree the little numbers get distracting

I use the black numbers a ton B)

lol

the red numbers are the only reason i get half of what i do get

you have to look through the green numbers, like Neo in the Matrix.... :)

lol

well i just got one more number, so it apparently works for me, sooner or later

hey i think i got a few more

Wait a minute! What is all this business about different colored numbers? How do you get that?

Cookie - see "How to Play" at the top.

Dr_God is a ninja. Hence colors.

huh?

hi guys :) got to try and do this speedily today (eeeep) as I'm off on holiday for the weekend soon!

Speedily = doing on pen and paper. Unfortunately computer screen just doesn't match. ;)

*nearly forgets manners* Hello Atalante!

woah, novel concept

well yeah, but I can hope!!! and hi Vega :)

what holiday (or are you from one of those places where holiday == vacation?)

I'm just off to visit my twin sister for a few days - she lives right over at the other side of England

England, cool

no - freezing cold!

yeah... holiday means something a little different in American dialect

haha yeah

fraternal or identical?

too bad we don't get st. patricks day off, i could have used it..

hahaha

officially not identical, in reality we still look pretty much identical anyway

do they celebrate St. Patty's in the bars in the UK or is that poor taste?

that's fun

its a huge thing - well, a good excuse for everyone to pile into irish bars and get horribly drunk on guinness lol

haha nice

And wear green I presume!

hey that sounds familiar

but i don't totally remember what i did...

;)

i'll have a newkie brown please!

good evening!

or rather. . . good morning!

guinness always used to give out free hats and stuff at bars on st patrick's day - but I don't think they do any more

hi

nope, it's night where i am

Ohhhhhh this all makes sense now

grrr

i was always wondering why so many ppl from the UK were on when I am... but I guess it's weird to be up at 2:14 in America

and semi-normal in the UK

?

motive-where are you at?

i'm having trouble turning my monitor sideways to read the columns properly

what time is it... 11:14?

yup

New York state

(it's the north-east of the US)

you telling that to me?

yup yup

well hello from Los Angeles

it's in the south west

lol

hahaha

and hello from Ojai

ohhh cool (the "british" part of your handle threw me off)

yeah, i'm not really british

too obvious

lol

Ojai?

Ventura County, Ca

ah ok

it's just after midnight here

where?

good old utah

cold too, I'll bet

that was an easy "hard"

i'm freezing where i am, but that's cuz the heat's not on

oh yeah. . .about 35 degrees right now

okay, not that cold

but cold for LA

probably about 10 degrees here

dang

where you at?

Rochester NY

i believe it

it's actually been warming up here lately

any luck for u guys?

not yet

i'm slowing down

anybody into March Madness?

Not anymore.

wish i could say i cared. . but alas. . .

oh ya!

i absolutely love basketball

who are you going for?

well i was going for UNC, im a Tarheel for life, but now I just dont care who wins, I just love watching games that could be the next classic

wow, deep

its just basketball at its best

i don't get into it at all, but my parents call to tell me UCLA wins, so i'm sorta interestde

who was it that said this was easy?

/dev/nall (or was that retorical?)

last four generations of my family went to UNC, and im at Georgia Tech, so I always have and always will love ACC basketball

Don't know........I'm sure finding it difficult

alright, saving it for later. g'night all y'all

night!

laterz

gnight

and stuck again

racing helen...

hi everyone

hey hey!

hey wac did you ever see my answer to your question about eb being auntie

that i did!

lol - hi hursh - gee after that monkey debacle i don't know if i can show my face again - lol

oh good

what was with us the other day. . . we kept missing each other

i'm off and running, helen, keep up!!!

monkey debacle? that sounds interesting!

i blame the wine -

hey ata, race on, no time to splain

this is scaring me, too easy, am i messing up?

but of course hurshy ;)

im starting to think the difficulty rating is just there to psych us out

the hards are rarely hard and easys are rarely easy

at least for me

are you done?

not yet just started

it gets hard :/

Think this one is hard despite it looking easy at first... I'm stymied.

starts reeeealy easy tho :)

and then sneaks up on ya

hmmm

still...past puzzles have also led me to believe this

not that i mind...kinda adds to it

I'd agree with you about most of them, santa.

I should be coding

I'll come back to this... (unless I'm worth my salt)

laterz

see ya

yep. . . i think it's bed time for me. . . so until tomorrow

goodnight everyone

and good luck

done

any suggestions on how to get it done

kick the damn thing till it co-operates!

work work

I only ever put green numbers in when there are only 2 possibilites left in the cell

for that number (I should have added)

gotcha

how can i do easy difficult ? ty

im giving up for the night, its 3 AM where i live

good luck to you all

nite andy

Good night

shoot, screwed it up somewhere

was trying to go to fast

that was one way to go - i went the other way - just sitting here & staring at it :)

oh well, will have to wait until tomorrow

well it's too late to start over now

good luck helen dear

see you tomorrow

that's a great idea see ya here tomorrow

by the afternoon my company will have left & then i'll take a nap (cause they will get up in about 4 hours - i am sleep de[prived - opp. schedules) and then get back to this

same here hurshy *sighsigh* speed sudoku isn't a good idea ...

quiet out there!

ok, someone tell me why I'm finding this HARD easier than yesterdays Easy???

difficulty-status has a lag

i would also say that the difficulty isn't changing that much between the days

its always upper-medium-class

starts easy, gets harder

I have filled the centre 9 without any pencil marks or guessing!

mind you, the 2 empty squares might be a challenge.....

Top left ain't easy

thanks for the headsup!! ;

ummm... I can't make the red pencil marks although I can make green.... anyone else got this problem?

alt click

hi Santa... I know HOW to do it... but it won't work!

ah

i dunno...mine works

it is alt click - make sure you hold alt down for a good amount of time!

yeah... it has been working everyday up to now... maybe there are crumbs under my alt key!

probably! been eating choccy biccies? :P

guess I'll have to work with possibles rather than not possibles LOL

or just use green for not possibles today!

duh.... why didn't I think of that LOL

:D

Morning all :)

morning sprite!

morning!

This one is hard... almost everything can occur in two places, lol.

I'm doing better with this than I have ANY others!

I think the easy ones are the toughest. But that's probably just me :)

done!

WTG Atalante :D

though I admit to guessing between 1 of 2 numbers at one point cos I'm in a rush!

wd atlante!

If you guess right, it is called intuition.

yup! I totally agree with that!!!

me too :-)

I'm doing ok but going to have to use 'intuition' to put anything in bottom right square!

if it's any help for you at all, after that one guess (on one of the squares with 2 possibilities in), the whole puzzle just resolved in a flash

hmmm ok, thanks Atlante... I have 2 squares like that

Now I am wondering if it was just intuition or sheer genius, Atalante.

sheer genius of course! ;)

As I have just started and most of my squares are like that - is not much help at the mo but thanks

I just made a mistake! And I fixed it! :) Gawd, if only life was that simple.

yes! that would be lovely!

*were

done too :)

I am soooo close6 squares complete!

Sprite - in 41 min wtg

Good going, Ginger :)
Guess I am getting the hang of it, haggis ;)

I've gone wrong .. 9 doubling :-(

Finally! It's done.

wd vega

I ight have to stp back considerably :-( 7 complete square, soooo close!

i just started guessing

that's where I've gone wrong Santa

we'll see how it turns out

yeah

ive just made sure i know where i started guessing

I did a checkpoint just before so can step back

but it's a BIG step!

mine too

sneaky things I've learnt, if you feel you need more than one save - either open a new window and play in there, or take a screenshot of the puzzle so you can also recreate that position

yeah ive done that for other puzzles

starting

is this one hard?

Who wants to answer that one?

I got a long way fast then it became rather hard!

been stck for a while myself

making good progress, just started to go nuclear, and then some more things opening up

I have squares 5 and 7 complete... but lots of places for 2 numbers left

none of my methods seem to make sence any more - it's all a blurr right now

hows your nuking going caderoux?

I need some devine inspiration right now :/

all greens filled in - looking for patterns

yea i am new to the whole green red thing

DONE!!! (filling in the reds and greens)

did you see any pattern Nick?

and done

well done Caderoux, wishI could say the same LOL

done

woohoo 31 min

from all greens and red till solve

I just redid it in SS and it's all about hidden pairs, which reveal hidden singles. about an hour here and 5 min in SS

SS?

this is hard

ss?

and yea i know what you mean by hidden pairs

having fun with 8's and 7's here!

Simple Sudoku for Windows - I have a pretty straightforward technique there - I highlight each number and make sweeps getting all the (not really hidden, since they're highlighted) singles. I do the locked candidates too at that time. Then I click the pairs button and look for pairs and triples. In this case, I had to do a little extra looking for the hidden pairs and then some more hidden singles showed up and then everything just dropped out.

um... that makes perfect sense :-O .. LOL

It's a great tool - I do the ones here without it because the highlighting makes solving so much quicker, it feels like an unfair advantage, and I don't always feel like typing them in in design mode.

oh no... back to the drawing board! Having trouble with 9's twice now!

hi all

Nikola tells me she did this one in 15 minutes

hi

Hi Peternl... I'm on my 3rd restart... the 9's are troublesome (to me!)... got so close to finish too with 7 complete squares!

Hi Chebuctonian

this is beyond ridiculous. I'm finding this one easier than yesterday's easy to start into

yep

yes, it's dead easy to START Chebuctonian LOL... you can fit lots of numbers but then a brick wall is thrown up!

am I invisible today LOL?

I havent hit a block yet, I'll let you know if it slows down

so far, I'm doing ok... I don't think you're using good enough strategies to solve a hard puzzle. have you read the wikipedia article?

you can complete a good amount of this puzzle today without the need for pencil marks... even I managed that LOL

hello!

hello!

only 3 points? I thought "Hard" was 5 points last time?

Nope, they changed it

its changed

1, 2, 3, 5

5 for evil?

And I imagine that all of the hard's that you got BEFORE the switch now count as 3 as well

I've had 2 points for medium - does it depend on the length of time you take?

No. 2 points is how much you get for mediums now

and the number of resets you do?

and the number of resets you do?

and the number of resets you do?

ok

but i've got 10 points for a med when i completed in on 20 mins

guess i should have read how to play :)

are you sure haggis10? How long ago was that?

it was my first game abouot a week ago

yeah the first puzzle i did was 10 points - byt thats been a while ago

done!

and it took me less time than yesterdays, and I didn't need a reset... wt#$?

must be 10 for first game then point system after that

perhaps

aaand I'm stuck

yep, a bit stuck too

I was doing so well too

licky u there?

hi honey

Oh hello, my fiancée

:)

Tough one again!

yeah, but this time it's actually labeled as such

true

i have nothing in the top left

me either

And only one number in the bottom right

got 824 bttm right

center square is filled

center and below are filled

but still stuck =P

hmm, is there something I'm missing, because I can't see how to fill the bottom (and bottom right) wthout guessing

haxored, i don't think you're missing anything. i'm at a point where i'm going to have to guess. :/

dont think i guessed but i dont remember now

guessing is no good :(

i've had to reset once. turns out i made a move that i thought wasn't a guess, but in fact had another possible move (and i picked the wrong one)

i agree. logic games where you end up having to guess are stupid.

You don't have to ever guess. Sometimes it just takes a lot of thinking and green numbers though :)

i didn't finish yesterday's puzzle at all because i was going to have to guess, so i just refused.

i you have to fill in a number and "see where it goes," that's guessing.

right

anyway, gotta finish this later. I have breakfast plans

bye!

bye matt!

l8r

would be cool if they took everyone's answers for the day, and run a little movie showing how people solved...

does that make sense?

yes. it would be very cool.

"tutorial mode"

or even "spectator mode"

spectator would be cool too

except for people who do it on paper then enter it all in at the end, it would like you'd used a solver

in websudoku, there's a reason to do that, but not here. this one lets you reset or back up on the screen.

but yeah, it would be interesting to see what numbers other ppl got first

i have the center box filled in completely, but it isn't helping me a bit. :/

3 points?

Easy: 1pt
Medium: 2pts
Hard: 3pts
Expert: 5pts

Easy: 1pt
Medium: 2pts
Hard: 3pts
Expert: 5pts

Expert was 10 at the beginning, ut it's been changed. Sorry or double post - not sure what caused that.

thnaks Islele that help a lot with 824 clue

i don't know whats wrong with me, i finish the hard puzzel in 20 minutes, and take 2 hours to do yesterdays easy. . .? perhaps i'm getting better

Nikola said the same thing, finished yesterday in 1.5 hours and todays in 10 minutes

Whereas I finished yesterdays in 20 minutes and am stuck on todays

maybe its just the way different ppl approach it, :)

perhaps

well going to town now, so good luck x x

oh boy, restarted... and finally finished... now I can do something else with my day... :D

I just had to go thru like a 50 step process to eliminate a possibility top make some progress

finally!

I'm going to bed! night all

Hello.

hey harp

going to bed? I just got up!

well we don't know what country...

alrighty, i am done

peternl? Probably the Netherlands.

Strange going to bed at 3 pm and wishing everyone a good night, though. Even for a dutchman

Oh, didn't think about what time it is in the Netherlands. Whoops.

;)

This is such a hard one

usually it doesn't take me this long

i started a sudoku once or twice... this is the first i'

that im dedicated to finishing. picked a hell of a one, eh?

that's for sure

Good luck with that

thanks

i'm having an easier time with this one than i had with yesterday's 'hard' one

'easy'?

lol sorry i got it turned around. yes, yesterday's 'easy' one

sometimes my numbers are slow loading in. please tell me there are more than 3 3's on that grid to start with.

haha, no carla

nope

never mind, here they come. whew, I thought, "Hard, that's darn near impossible!"

Done! That wasn't *too* bad

I must be doing something wrong from the very start

if i could just get one or two spaces filled in, it'd blow this puppy wide open (not that blowing puppies open is usually a good idea or anything)

$$&*^^(#@#

Don't flip out on us Rachel - I'm stuck too

it's that upper left hand corner

macuser, did you have to do any guessing?

No, I didn't guess at all. I started with the upper left hand box and worked from there. Figure out which number goes in the very first box, everything else falls into place

That was just as easy as yesterdays

thx macuser

I must be missing something about that upper left hand box.

yw, marci

David, I am too

I get a nine, but that's about it

it is possible to deduce what goes in the first box... look at the rows and you'll see there's only one number that can go there

the whole upper left box is blank for me

when i say blank i mean many green numbers

and when I say rows... I mean all the way up and down

GREEN NUMBERS??????

I only see five numbers eliminated from the upper left box...

Possibilites, DBoutsik. Shift-click to set.

choose a number with the shift held down, puts a green one there

aaaaah

thanks

I agree with DBoutsik, I only see five numbers eliminated from the upper left box. What am I missing?

me too

I have none eliminated

Sorry, I should have done a screenshot of it before I finished because now I don't remember what were in there as poosibilities

*possibilities

hmmmmm

my box is totally blank

what number do you all have in there now as possibilities?

well you know that it can't be a 1, 5, 2, 4, 8 because those are given, so those are eliminated

given in the row 1 and column 1

oh, I see what you mean

possibilities = 3679

what do you see Rachel?

could be 3, could be 9, could be 7, could be 6,

not much jd

those are the correct possibilities

don't think it can be 3, cause i just guessed with that and got stuck later on ;)

yes, but you said it was possible to deduce because ONLY ONE number could go there

of course it's possible i have another issue

find the number in that group that you won't be able to place in either of the 2 boxes beneath it

well that number could go in column1, row6 as well

a hoi hoi

This one seems easier than yesterday's, so far...

you're right, acheekymonkey... you'll need to eliminate that one first

thanks

Bother, still missing something.

macuser, when you say eliminate are you guessing?

no, I believe I filled that one in quite early

ok

YAY did it!!!

YAY did it!!!

It was based on the same deduction as applied to the other

thanks to macuser, actually :)

WTG, marci!!! :)

i feel kinda like a loser to have need help though...

i got the same help and i haven't got it yet...so what does that make me?

I still can't see it at all

Nice going, marci

you're not a loser, marci... you still had to figure it out for yourself

i just went with his tip... the # that can be in square 1 but not in either of the 2 squares below it

i don't understand why the other option for that number was eliminated though

:P

er, I'm female, heh

if you got c1, r6 that is....

I don't understand the tips you guys give at all, but they make me look harder so I think that's why I'm finding this one easier.

sorry macuser

the tips can be a little cryptic... i think folks don't want to give too much away for those still wanting to do it solo

lol, it's okay... the reason it had to be elimanted was because that number could only be used once in that column

Yeah.

boy, that was a particularly easy one

okay folks, I'm outta here... good luck and take it slow... don't rush it... that's when I make all my mistakes... bye!

Take care M.

thanks macuser

I just reset mine by accident. Sucks.

Finally only 3 possibilities left in the top left corner.

Lol well done. Keep it up.

more of a medium difficulty puzzle...

ugh, finally

Yesterday's was easy and I thought that was harder than this.

Never want to do that one again

i agree, psycho

Do you think the "hard" and "easy" messages are the wrong way around?

Haha I'm starting to think so.

nope, i can do the easy ones

thats easy

I did the one yesterday in about 15 minutes, and I'm taking forever to do this one.

DONE !!!

The one yesterday took me about 40 minutes and I had nearly done this one in about 25 before I accidentally reset it.

Although the end might have taken ages...but I doubt it.

this is too hard for me

Don't give up!

i started off well, but . ..

It kinda fades in and out. I spend a few minutes stuck and then get a few numbers at once..

I think I've got it. I was able to place L2-C2 and L2-C3. It unblocked so many other cells.

stuck, stuck, stuck!

me too me too me too lol (stuck that is)

DONE!

same here, same here, same here!

i'm about to start guessing...

it never pays to guess!

i know. ive gotten burned on the guessing... and it simply isn't as rewarding. still, tempting.

:( Have to go to work now. Guess I'll be back later to try and finish before time runs out!

some times guessing is the only way

i'm soooo stuck

oki have a tip .......... DONT GUESS lol

i'm going to have to GUESS!

I'm going to do it...im guessing

oh wow... I've been starting at the screen for aaages but never saw something so obvious

I think I might be on my way to solve it now

staring even

care to share a tip?

well... it kinda depends on how far you've got already and such :\

ack. i had to start over and now i'm all stuck again

And if we're using the same methods

yeah

wot a surprise guessing didn't work. i'm off to have my tea instead

But for me it involved finding three cells on a line that each contained only two or three of the same three numbers, nothing more. And then you can delete those three from every other cell in the line :P

ok thanks

YES

I'd been stuck for so long, but a single revelation started a landslide and it all fit into place after that :D

this is getting frustrating

bjornkri, that tip was helpful thank you

:But for me it involved finding three cells on a line that each contained only two or three of the same three numbers, nothing more. And then you can delete those three from every other cell in the line"

I don't get this

say three numbers 1,2,3 show up in a row or column in a few places

define 'few'

if only those numbers are in three of the squares, like say 1,2 or 1,3 or 2,3 or 1,2,3 but no other numbers

you can take out 1,2,3 from the other 7 squares

in that row or column

why?!

its an extension of the twins rule if you have 1,2 in two squares they can be taken out of the row or column

what if you have 6/9, 4/6/9, 2/4, 2/4/9

because if the 1 is in one square the other must be 2 (when only those numbers are in the square, if there are many possibilities it doesn't work)

i mean there are sort of twins

but not really

id say not really in your example

cra

p

p is right

it's just deductive reasoning, only i'm not seeing it right now. dangit - they'r in there, i know they are.

if you're stuck use the checkpoint and try the first number of a pair until it doesn't work out (like you have to put double numbers in a row or columm) then you know the other is the right one and work from there.

p

random guessing

logical guessing

so much work cheeky, when i know there is a way to do it rigth the first time.

i always have to do it the hard way...

it was a difficult one for me. i think i was working it out from the wrong spot. had to guess in 3 areas

a gesture in one place should be sufficient ...

i had such a great start. now 1/2 way done and stuck stuck stuck

not if it is correct one(some times)

?

hey hey how's it goin?

i need some 7s

starting over

chu: are we talking about luck? ;-)

goin' to prepare diner - bye all

if you are guessing correct numbers some tims you can't finish in one go. it pays to fin a good plac to start guessing :)

wth? i can't get anywhere now that i reset

that sucks

done. checkpoints are my new best friends!!!!!!!!

they sure are nice

wahoo. . .3 points

this one's taking a while

anyone know why the screen flickers sometimes?

i've only had that happen once. restart firefox

ok

hate to do this, but I'm going to have to use IE

what's that?

internet explorer

an ancient browser used back in the day

ah

when dinosaurs browed the internet

when dinosaurs browsed the internet

when dinosaurs browsed the internet

sorry!

HAHA

this one looks like a pain

there's an echo in here

there's an echo in here

in here, in here, in here...

woohoo! done!

lol it was all because i tried to fix my spelling

eight squares to go.....the tension mounts....

six to go....

if you are lucky like i was yesterday you will get down to the last two squares and have a conflict

four to go....

guerro, either way I have to start doing my taxes in five minutes!

heh I got my taxes back like over a month ago

w00t!!!

rats.........................................
....

i just realized something. I haven't eaten a candy bar in at least over a year

guerro!

how is that possible?

hey hursh

you must be a boy.

or a model.

i dunno but i did it on the last puzzle!

ate a candy bar?

i was talking about the candy bar thing

came down to two empty squares and needed a 8 and 4 to go into them but each one had a 8 and 4 in conflict

oh, that is not fun

oh i dunno I guess i just dont really ever eat candy bars but i like snickers

but it was the candy that shocked me

are you a boy?

or a model?

well, I like to think of myself as a man. But yeah I ama guy lol

ok, then my world has not collapsed

are you a girl?

yes, see the pink person by my name?

that is what it means

ahhh i see

blue for boys, pink for girls, grey for people who won't say

pinky hurshkidero

lol

;)

i'm not up at inspiration point

and done - 3 more pts

where are you from ?

connecticut

wow thats far I am in AZ

ah, then you are lucky in one great respect

lucky that its 79 degrees outside and sunny ?

no... you have john mccain for a senator

oh

he is a great man

yeah I have met him several times

he speaks at the colleges here quite often

you HAVE?

wow that is so cool

i supported his presidential run

and got a poster of him in return from when he was younger

he was a hottie

yes also, my mom was working for his father, U.S. McCain when John was taken prisoner of war

WOW

how old are you ?

that is one thing that amazes me, that he went through all that and can still function would be impressive enough, but then to be such a great public servant...

i am 28

i am 35

do you think he is going to run for pres again? that is the impression i get

yes I think he will be the best bet for the Republicans in 08

i am not a republican

i just like good candidates

and if the Dems put Hilary as their candidate then McCain will win hands down

he would have won hands down last time!

really it was stupid of the republicans not to see that

the republican base wouldn't vote for gore, and mccain would pick up all the middle voters

so they wouldn't have had that close election and all the craziness with the supreme court

well, McCain is in office as a Republican but to me he is more of some kind of moderate I think the classical political parties are no longer descriptive of the candidates

oh yay. politics

the trouble is they are descriptive of a lot of them

the only good ones are the ones like mccain who don't just toe the party line

I thought my sudoku was the only bastion left from the political world. Is nothing sacred? :)

but hax - it's a friendly talk

we aren't arguing

I know :D

you can always shut us up

well, we are talking more about McCain than just plain ole politics

It's no big deal. My tongue was firmly in cheek

lol

so I'm stuck

and I'm trying to avoid filling up the board with green

I enjoy seeking out last bastions so I can introduce politics ;)

i can help if desired

i have slowed a bit as well I finally got a number in the lower right 9 square box

say the word and i will assist

not me

in whatever way you see fit

what about you hax? got any ?'s?

hrmm, any way i see fit ? ? ;)

I filled the center box, and almost filled the botom middle box (missing 4 and 7)

yes, that sounds right

i am where hax is

do the top center too

it is good

I can't :(

you should be able to get all but 4, and those 4 in pairs of 2

yeah that is what i have

yeah

I did that

Aside from the middle column of boxes I only have 3 numbers placed

well then just start filling up your possibles!

my question is what do i do with all the green numbers once i have them in there

I don't wanna :(

so much green

it's confusing

once you have them there, you must look for sets of numbers that are self-contained.

you know about that with pairs.

???

if you have 1,3 in two boxes in a row or group

they can't go anywhere else

right?

ohhhh

well this applies to any number of numbers.

Fine I cave. Here come the greens

*sigh* :)

g'mornin all

if you have 3 boxes with, say, 7,8,9 (or any subset thereof)

but i already have all the other numbers for those colums

then none of the others can contain those 3

right

i am just explaining the principles

so the other day for instance we had a box with 7,9, a box with 7,8 and a box with 7,8,9

so we were able to remove those numbers from elsewhere in the row

you see why?

i do

ok well today you get a chance to apply that rule with FIVE

your mission...should you choose to accept it...

FIVE?

what the heck

yes FIVE!

isn't it great??? :) :) :)

No :(

another thing to look for:

whoa. that was odd

yikes

yes it was

I didn't do anything

thought you were upset

ok, another thing to look for:

you must have leaned on the return button hahha

sometimes you may not know exactly where a number goes

but you know that it has to go, say, on the right column in a certain group

how hard is todays puzzle?

3rd level of difficulty

Difficulty: Hard

i c that but we've had some hard easys and some easy mediums

ok, so if you know it must go on the right in that group, and the group below it you have that number as a possibility in the right and the center or something, then you can take it out of the right

i would say this rating is about right

did people catch that tip?

hax, guerro?

i did

yeah, I use that one a lot

ok

well then you should be able to do any sudoku in the world

if you know these simple rules :)

It took me three tries yesterday

it just takes care and patience.

And plenty of sleep the previous night

ummmm...... I guess I'm the only one, but no, hurshy, I do not get that tip :(

yes, sudoku MUST be done on a clear head.

ok i try again for you mama

I got a couple of the first week's puzzles but have been hitting brick walls since

let's say that in the top left box, you see that a 7 could only go on the right, after you have placed all your possibles

and in the middle left box, your possibles currently state that a 7 could go on the right or in the center column

well, it really CAN'T go on the right because the box above it is going to use the right, and that column can only have one 7

this is hypothetical, not about today's 7's.

Oh, yes, I understand that.......

and you know about self-contained groups?

that is not an official term or anything

is there a pencilmarks option?

yes shift click

thanks:)

self contained groups? You mean the 9 box cubes?

have you heard people talk about "naked pairs"?

shift click gives you green and alt click gives you red

nope. I would have remembered that term!!! LOL

"naked pairs"?

well you prob know about them anyway

when you have two numbers in two boxes, then those 2 numbers can't go any other place in their group (or row, or column, whichever it is that they are in together)

right

i mean, right?

right

yea

and do you know that works with any number of numbers?

not just pairs

yeah but how do you decide from there which ones stay in which boxes?

yeah but how do you decide from there which ones stay in which boxes?

you don't right away.

the chief use is to eliminate them as possibles from other boxes.

which gradually helps.

yay! finished...i don't know what you guys think but this one was definitely easier than yesterday's and this one is marked hard!

the key is when you have two numbers in two boxes and ONLY those two numbers

oh ok

now, if it is more than 2, they don't ALL have to be in ALL the boxes.

if there is 7,8 and 7,9 and 8,9, that still works

3 numbers, 3 boxes

a self-contained group

woo hoo

and as i was saying, today you can use this rule with FIVE

which is unusual

do you have to?

not necessarily, perhaps

diff people notice diff things at diff times of course

so if you saw something i didn't before i saw it you might not

whoa that was confusing

I get it though

phew

My ability to parse confusing sentences far outstrips my ability to play sudoku :)

I understood that too

not true

you have 100% ability to play sudoku once you know the logic

not true?

you just make careless errors sometimes

careless errors don't count as not being able to do it

I feel so convicted all of a sudden

they just mean you didn't happen to do it.

convicted?

"you just make careless errors sometimes" O:-)

well so do i!

i suppose most of us do

my point is just that it really doesn't mean anything about your sudoku ability.

usually the trouble is that I'm afraid that I will make an error, so I tend to over think things when they get compliated, and then I just give up

this one is hard.

that is what is says, danec. :)

I am listening to Royksopp. It is good sudoku music

my problem is once every thing is green, i don't know what to do from there.

you apply the logical rules we were just talking about, mama.

have you got everything green now?

doesn't it seem like the rules sometimes just back you into a corner?

Also, I rarely am in a situation where I can use the triplet rule to actally weed things out

not yet

like in the case where I have only three items left in the row

no, the rules always work out right.

really, hax?

which row or 9 box cube did you start with filling?

the whole middle section (columns 4 5 6) is pretty easy

I get all excited because I find three boxes with three numbers, and then I realize oh, I can' do anything with these

you get it mostly filled with a few pairs left.

exactly hax!!!!!

odd, i use it all the times.

*time.

i mean sometimes that happens, what you're saying.

i get stuck with pairs or triples and it takes me FOREVER to figure out what to do next

maybe my brain is sticking

again, the thing with pairs or triples is not to look AT them but to look at what they help you eliminate.

usually they don't get sorted out themselves until much later.

what do you recommend doing with a cube (9 empty boxes) that is still empty?

fill it up with possibles!

i've got it all numbered up in green, and eliminated everything i could

gotta go shopping....will try to do this later... thanks, hurshy.......

you really must fill the whole grid with possibles in order to use the rules most effectively.

and now i appear to be stuck,lol

which one, the top left or the bottom right?

bye mama!

both

I see what you mean caffein..... once I have all that green, it makes me overwhelmed

yup mama, lol

it's like cooking, it may not look like a cake while you're mixing it, but you have to have faith that it will

ok tty all later by hurshy

i don't know where to start then, because, historically I always end up with one row that can't make it and I have to start over.

er, bye

you get out your ingredients and you make a big mess but then it all comes together

bye guerro

ok, so in the bottom right box, have you looked carefully at the ones that touch the outside?

mr elf?

or hax?

ms elf, actually ;)

oh, sorry ms elf.

it's okay :) i have two cells in the bottom middle that are unsolved (they have a pair in each, obviously)

yes, that is right.

and two cells in the middle right box unsolved as well

and you have nothing in bottom right but green, correct?

correct

so look at the ones that touch the outside

the outside?

of the grid

the ones on the edge

they can't be 8,1,2 or 3

there are 5 of them

RIGHT

so your other boxes are down to those four (or less)

nice

that is where you use the rule with 5!

wait a minute, i'm confused. lemme read that again.

the outside boxes only contain 4,5,6,7,9

I filled in one number with that method

or some subset thereof

5 boxes, 5 numbers

so they don't go anywhere else

well hax, it doesn't all happen right away

that means the other 4 boxes have to be 8, 1, 2, 3

I know it doesn't I was glad :)

because any number filled in is a small victory

oh ok

NOW i see what you meant. thank you!

and wasn't it exciting to use it with 5 after all, hax, o ye of little faith?

I have faith, I just like to complain O:-)

But yeah. Thanks for the help

I don't usually look at the bigger picture to do stuff like that

thx from me too

the top left is more about noticing what can only go in certain columns

yw

mainly because there are so many places TO look

well hax, there are 4x4 sudokus if this is too much for you :)

No, I'm fine :p

(male psychology, so easy to manipulate)

HAHA

:)

Yeah, you sure played me like an instrument :p

high five, hurshy. that was funny! :D

lol

Like I said, I just like to complain. I never said I was gonna quit :)

if i thought you might, i wouldn't have suggested it :)

at least you ask for directions...

:)hehe

I'm not so much of a guy that I can't ask for directions :)

exactly what percent guy are you, hax?

LOL.

I think it fluctuates between 40 and 80 ;)

oh... not enough then... it's gotta be 99.44

99.44 is the "ask for directions" threshhold?

no, just an ivory soap commercial joke. very obscure.

Ahh yes. I remember those

i want my man as real as ivory.

you want him to float in water?

no, just want him 99.44% pure!

of course he does float in water, too

marty, the cat in this pic, likes water. but doesn't like to get wet. and he doesn't seem to think they ought to go together. he thinks he should be able to enjoy going in the water without getting wet.

he seems surprised when he sticks his paw in the tub and it comes out wet.

but he puts it back in.

cats are great like that

marty is a special wacko. weirdest cat, ever.

and most domesticated.

okay, so I have this row: 6,7 - 4,6,7 and 1,3,4,6,7 (among others) can I do anything with those?

no, not really

didn't think so

# of #'s must match # of boxes

5 #'s, 3 boxes, ng

what we need is some sort of interface where people can watch an expert solve a really truly evil sudoku, and watch the whole process.

next time there's a hard or evil one, do a screencast :)

and where the expert can explain the logic behind each step

I have web hosting if you need it :-D

how does one do this?

Do you have a mac or windows machine?

windows

sorry :(

anyway i didn't say i wanted to be the expert

that would be a lot of pressure

hehe, that's fine :)

i mean i could

but it would be so embarrassing if i made a careless error

it wouldn't be a live broadcast :)

http://www.hyperionics.com/

you can use hypercam to create a movie of what happens on your sreen

ButI don't want to pressure you, so I'll get back to the puzzle

new save features are lookin good dr_god!

i see hypercam

how would one then broadcast it?

upload it to a server, and link people to the movie file

this is like gym class.

just keep your eye on the ball.

it sounds so simple... yet...

when you say link people to the movie file, do you mean i would tell people, hey, this is the link?

like in here, in the chat?

That would be one way yes

and when you say upload it to a server, would that be the web hosting that you referred to having earlier?

That would be one option yes :)

and would one have to worry about copyright issues for using a sudoku and broadcasting it? on websudoku it says you can distribute them only to family, friends, or a school class

they sell their sudokus to papers and stuff

That would be a question for Dr_God, since these are his puzzles

i wonder if dr_g generates these or buys them from somewhere else

right?

well yes, assuming i used one of these

also, do you have to have a really good computer to use hypercam? mine is five years old, might not be powerful enough?

I haven't used it. I just did a quick google search for screen capture programs on windows

:O

Sorry :)

so really then, if i wanted, i could just make a whole series of still pics using "print screen" and paint

That would definitely work too

but a movie would be fancier

definitely

imagine, marketing a sudoku tutorial cd-rom

what an amusing thought

And then there's the possibility of narrating it while you do it when a movie is used

someone prob already has

narrating!

hmm, i wonder if sean connery is available...

fancy shmancy

or james earl jones

"luke, you can't put the 4 there"

Morgan Freeman would be the best choice in my opinion

or, USE THE FOUR, LUKE

lol

much better, elf

grandpa gilmore is always up for narrating stuff

i'm a bit of a geek about starwars. although my hubby is WAY worse!

damn. I screwed up :(

or LEONARD NIMOY!!!!

hax! how could you.

hax, me too. i am on my THIRD try.

this puzzle is making me mad...

i hope you have a good checkpoint saved.

I blame my humanity

hurshy, your tip worked beautifully and then from there i messed something up gloriously.

yes, what you all need is an infusion of vulcan blood.

:-p

did you save, though?

or a light saber.

I did

i did, AFTER i screwed up.

now that I can go back, I tend to save before I try to do anything overly clever

it's okay. i've almost memorized the moves that are correct

heh heh, IF ONLY

but the possibles. the annoying labelling of the possibles.

that is what one doesn't wish to have to do over.

i have sevens all over the damn place, lol

(in green, of course)

do you do red labeling too?

who you askin', mama?

anybody

i did at first when i was new to sudoku but now i don't.

ok thanks. just wondered

i don't, but that's because for some reason it will not work for me, so i haven't tried it out.

it helped me get the idea of things

and it was good before i was convinced that one never has to guess, bc i would use just red, and then if i thought i had to guess, i would make a green trail instead of putting in the numbers for sure

so if it didn't work i still had my reds and could just erase the greens

however, now that i know one really never has to guess, the reds have become superfluous

lol

hello, dplass, what is funny?

"however, now that i know one really never has to guess, the reds have become superfluous"

that is funny?

dunno. just funny

i will begin my stand-up career post haste.

now what's NOT funny is how I have gone like 3 days in a row w/o finishing

even yetserday's "Easy"

see, now here is a person who needs my webcast, hax.

I finished yesterday's "Easy" but there's a bug in the software such that it wouldn't log me in. I had to create a new user in order to do it

how odd, jdog.

i'm with you on that one, dplass. i didn't do yesterday's either. my brain quit working a few hours before the puzzle ended

so the point it went on was not my jdog profile :(

are you sure you didn't have caps lock on or something?

Has anybody had success with having your password emailed to you? that didn't work either.

positive hurshy.

send an email to doc g detailing what's happened.

link at bottom.

aw crap forgot to save

I just solved this one, but i have a question for an expert.

ask away

is it ALWAYS possible to solve one without doing a trial and error? I had to stick an 8 into a spot, then follow that path until it became impossible, then I went back and put the 9 in instead, and followed that path to solve it.

yes it is always possible.

didn't believe it at first either but tis true

damn... oh well. I cheated then!

it's ok, you got it, you just made it harder on yourself than it had to be

actaully i was reading on solving techniques, and it's NOT always tpossible without guessing

i have never encountered one that required guessing, even on the highest level.

where did you read that, dplass?

i can dig it up in a minute

k

sudoku puzzles are not supposed to require guessing, if they do, then they are improperly constructed.

It all depends on your definition of "guessing."

i have wondered that myself ... i believed in no guessing, but today's puzzle - well the last 3 or so - have really kicked my butt

hello dr. g... what is your definition of guessing? :)

i never have to guess now under ANY definition.

http://www.sudoku.org.uk/PDF/Solving_Sudoku.p
df

so then - would you say there is some probability involved?

No

it's more like a maze where there's some dead ends and you have to traceback

== guess, then unguess

There is technically no guessing in sudoku, but some humans can keep more in their head at once than others.

lol

ok

if you can mark the possibles you don't have to guess OR keep in head

i see what you both are saying. AUGH! now my head will explode from seeing both sides at once!

too much caffiene?

it's possible :)

So some players can keep 10 moves down the road in their head, other can't. Those that can are basically just mentally guessing.

i don't think ahead at all

and yet i never guess

marking the possibles saves some brain work

yes marking is the key!

you have a good brain for the math, hurshy

math?!

it's just one move at a time, there is always some one thing you can be sure of next, which leads to another thing you can be sure of after that.

the logic. it's mathematics

dr god - how about a cheat button

That would be cheating. ;)

then you don't get points, natch

lol nooo, that would be too tempting

no point then hehe

Just have to wait til the puzzle closes and the answer becomes available.

but since you can't see the "original" (unfilled-in) puzzle, what's the fun of the archive?

That will soon change. ;)

yay!

you rock, dr god

OMG THIS IS so freustrating

yes, freustrating with an e

the 'e' is for 'extra'

nice save dplass

lol.

Dr_God: how about some Easy puzzles that are truly easy?

:)

i don't want to beat a dead horse, but really, you never have to guess in any way, you do not even have to say, well, if this is a 5, then that would mean this, and that would mean this, and hold things in your head. scouts' honor.

i do agree with you, hurshy, i just hate the fact that my brain misses the obvious conclusions sometimes ;)

mine does too - but if i stare at it long enough i see them.

suddenly, after staring at it 2 hours my brain goes 'oh!'

you have given me hope ;)

oh, yay!

yay for btwrt!

(i caved an went pro)

lovely, elf

anD went pro. see, my language skills are failing me now.

caffein - i'm lovin your lil' avatar ...

ty :)

now my shadow looks xtra plain. thx

lol. peer pressure!

here...btwrt... i'm only a shadow too! Is there any benefit in soduko to going pro like there is in babble?

lol yes caffein, do you find that you can solve the sudoku now? j/k ;)

meh, still having to use my own brainpower

i upgraded so i could 1)support the site since i'm here every day now, and 2)have an avatar

mama, if you don't like numbers, there are other tiles you can use as a pro. you can make a friends list and see who you know online.

and of course the icon, flag, etc.

just wondered.... thanks.

ooh, other tiles?

then there's the "dr_g must eat" aspect of things

another question.... if you have say 3 green numbe4rs in a box, is there a way to remove one without touching the others?

yes, shift click on it again

btwrt, there are letters, and little animals

I know it supports Dr. God..... I am all for that, was just wondering if things changed in here or not.

i know mama :)

i just ramble.

I am 100% completely stuck

My grid is getting so green it looks like a Christmas tree.

TP17, is your grid also full of green?

same with mine, mama...

that is as it should be, to quote mary poppins.

I use mostly green. If I find a box that I know can ONLY contain one of two numbers, I change them to red

hello, btw

But I am trying your method, hurshy - putting green numbers in each square. Now, theoretically at the end, I should have a box SOMEWHERE that only has one number in it as a starting point, correct?

so I don't use the colors "correctly", but I use them

TP17, you then eliminate those two from the other things?

yep

found some naked triples

and TP17, you know you can do that with more than that too?

but I just can't get past the point where I'm at

examine the edge boxes in the lower right corner carefully.

will do

yes mama, you will get to where you only have one green in some square. only you will have to work for it. :)

didyou see my last question, hurshy?

I'm about half way done greening

yes, i think, didn't i answer it right there?

What about the edge box in the lower right hand corner?

the 5 edge boxes in the lower right hand corner, if considered carefully, will render assistance.

yes - I'm sorry - I wrote that post before I saw your answer. I think I just hit my one green number box - it's a 5..... right?

could be, mama

hard to remember :)

i have a shameful thing to admit. i didn't know about the little green possible numbers and now that i have found out about this, things are going much better :/

lol

you would think caffein would have TOLD me about it ... lol ;)

WHAT! How do I see the green possibles?

i DID!

that's not shameful, btwrt...... this is new to alot of people!

shift click

:) i thought you already knew b4 that, though

are you 2 friends in real life then?

shift click for green numbers and alt click for red

lol. its ok i forgive you, i've only been at this 5 days now

because u are already so smart :D

sisters actually

she's my big sis

someone fill me in on the green thing?

i am not BIG. :D

you can read how to play, or just try shift-click.

i wish i could get my sisters to play babble or sudoku. sigh.

rcheramy - hold down the shift key and click on a number it will make it green in the square. or hold down the alt key and click on the number and it will make it red in the square

aww

I'll be your babble/soduko sister, hurshy!!!!!

it's ok hurshy, we'll adopt you

aww!!

oh woops, mamabear got you first

oh, wow, lots of sisters!

ROFL

I have only one sister but she doesn't even talk to me let alone play games....

we can all adopt each other :)

oh dear, mamabear. that's awful. :(

that's ok, btwrt, I'll share her!

heh... got it... I was using the red for that function.. didn't know there was red and green. handy

caffein and i are extra close because we hated each other as children

red, green, doesn't matter which

OK. Hurshy - all my boxes are full of green numbers and I think I'm starting to break out in hives.

there's red??

... j/k

mama, now is when the fun begins!

*I* can't figure out the red. it won't work for me, but i don't need it.

well, it does if you are using green for "could be" numbers and red to indicate "can't be" numbers in the same box

yeah, you really only need one colors

*color

OK.... hurshy..... walk me through this... I don't want to get this far and screw this up. Obviously, I start with the box that has one number in it. Here I go....

ok now remove that from all the others in its row and group and column

ok

that is where most mistakes are made, in forgetting to remove things and then something looks like something that it isn't.

ok. now I have another box that has one number in it..... brb

you see? it's like dominoes.

Yea but now I don't have any more boxes with only one number...... now what?

now you look for more things that are logical.

in the top left box, i think there is something that can only go in a certain column, even though you don't know which exact box yet

so it can't go anywhere else in that column

the top left box cube is completely empty - I don't see how I can determine an individual square yet.

I mean empty with dfinite numbers in it

you can't, mama, i didn't say you could

look carefully at the fives

i just said you would find that something can only go in a certain column, and thus can't go lower in that column

oh this green thing is wonderful

oh frabjous day! calloo, callay ...

ok... never mind... I misunderstood.

*chortling*

twas brilling, and the slithey toves did gyre and gimbol in the wabe

I HATE whne I'm 11 squares away and I have a screwup

all mimsy were the borogroves ... there's a user named momerath i saw on babble and somebody asked he/she if they outgrabe, but they never answered. and i was so curious

i'm sceered

hurshy...... wha?

heehee! that's one of my favorite poems

beware the jabberwock, my son, the jaws that bite and the claws that catch

beware the jubjub bird, and shun the frumious bandersnatch

jabberwocky? Python?

he took his vorpal sword in hand, long time the manxom foe he sought

so rested he by the tum-tum tree, and stood awhile in thought ...

i thought it was 'HIS manxom foe'

hurshy? dispute resolution?

hmmm, not sure

i think the

quick, someone google it!

i have hard copy downstairs

i need a hard copy. i memorized that like 10 years ago and it may have begun to fray.

no, you are right, btwrt. although manxome has an 'e', as you can see

also tumtum is not hyphenated, but it is capitalized :D

one two, one two, and through and through, the vorpal blade went snicker-snack

TP17 - not Python but Lewis Caroll

but we missed the line - and as in uffish thought he stood, the jabberwock, with eyes of flame, came whiffling through the tulgy wood, and burbled as it came!

oh yeah

guess i am rusty too

He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

because i love that part, it's so ... emotive, lol

yeah

(was following you, hurshy)

how it can be emotive with all made-up words, i don't know

ahhh, thanks FMitch

and hast thou slain the jabberwock? come to my arms, my beamish boy

i seriously have to go and hang with my poor ignored kid and grouchy husband. c y'all later

oh frabjous day! callooh! callay! he chortled in his joy

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

(last line)

yay1

i mean yay!

lol!

SO much fun.

mama, how you doing there?

:D yes

on hold got a phone call

why am I surprised - there is a website, www.jabberwocky.com

that's where i found the poem, lol

LOL caffein, just refreshing myself with the walrus & the carpenter now.

we quote that one a lot in my family, and always get odd uncomprehending looks from everyone other than us :)

ahh, a kindred spirit then!

"The Walrus and the Carpenter" that's an indictment of organized religion. The walrus, with his girth and his good nature, he obviously represents either Buddha, or... or with his tusk, the Hindu elephant god, Lord Ganesha. That takes care of your Eastern religions. Now the carpenter, which is an obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was raised a carpenter's son, he represents the Western religions. Now in the poem, what do they do... what do they do? They... They dupe all these oysters into following them and then proceed to shuck and devour the helpless creatures en masse.

(that's from the movie Dogma, by the way)

lol, i remember that

OR, it is what happens when you are high and writing poetry?

I don't want to post the rest of the quote, since there might be some kiddies on here

yah, true

i knew i had heard that somewhere before, tp

so does that mean he thought islam was the way to go?

no

i know jk

I don't know what that says to you, but to me it says that following these faiths based on mythological figures ensure the destruction of one's inner-being. Organized religion destroys who we are by inhibiting our actions... by inhibiting our decisions, out of... out of fear of some... some intangible parent figure who... who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says... and says, "Do it - Do it and I'll spank you. "

oh

LOL probably best not to TP17 as this is a very open log

I cut out the naughty word

that may be what it is saying, makes sense. i don't think it's true, but i think it is a reasonable analysis.

I agree

this stupid puzzle is still frustrating me. I started over, and I'm back to where I was before

i mean, that is a low stage of morality, anyway, the stage where you do right out of fear

oh dear, tp, i'm sorry to hear that.

true

at least I know I didn't mess up the first time :)

aw tp - don't feel too bad. i've had to start totally over from scratch twice

if you didn't mess up the first time, why aren't you done?

I thought I might have screwed up, so I started over and put all the greens in, and have been eliminating since. But I'm back to the point where I was stuck at the first time

which is...?

you've done the five bit in the lower right?

no other visible moves. I'm sure I'm missing some logic

nope

consider the five edge boxes in the lower right corner

I've looked at those 5 boxes, but I can't get a grip on what should be staring me in the face

how many different numbers do they contain?

5

aha!

then if nothing but those 5 numbers can go in those 5 boxes, then those 5 MUST go there, and hence cannot go elsewhere in that group.

oui?

it's a naked quintet????

or quintuple?

indeed it is

son of a......

i prefer to call them self-contained groups.

ROFL

but they work in any size.

I looked up to the quads, but didn't go beyond that

thanks Hurshy

yw

it is rare to get beyond even triples

so not surprising people are not noticing it.

i like tp's naming better. makes the game more exciting ;)

that leaves me with 2 other "naked pairs" in the other 4 boxes in that lower-right 3x3

sounds about right

depending what else you've done you may be able to place one of those pairs now.

but if not, that's ok too.

yep, can't yet

the reason i like to call them self-contained groups is that it is one name that applies to them all, naked pairs, triples, etc., so it is simpler.

i still dont fully understand this naked pair thing or maybe I do but just dont know it

I'll try to explain

to review the logic of naked stuff, or self-contained groups

oh, you go tp

If you have 2 boxes in a row, column, or 3x3 box, that you know can ONLY contain two possible numbers.......

then those two numbers can be removed from the respective row, column, or 3x3 box

ok i get that but what if those two numbers are the only left in a row column or 3x3 box

and it works with 3 boxes that can contain ONLY 3 possible numbers, and 4 boxes that can contain ONLY 4 possible.....etc

then it's no help, guerro, and you'll get them later.

exactly

ok i see i was thinking i could still use them

but the logical principle is, if a certain number of numbers takes up that number of boxes, they must go in those boxes and no others.

you kinda can

along the far right column i have 2,8,3,1 and the same numbers along the bottome row

my bottom right 3x3 box contains only an 8 in the upper left postiont

if you have the "naked pair" in a 3x3 box, look to the rows and columns that contain those two cells, and see if you can make another "naked pair" in a row or column

i have naked pairs all over

so, guerro, those 5 edge boxes in the lower right can ONLY contain the other 5 numbers (45679) and thus the other 4 in its group contain the 1,2,3,8

I totally missed the logic on the 8's in the lower right corner. I could punch myself right now

lots of times i have two naked pairs in the mirror position to each other

yes, and they will work out in the end guerro

you just can't get them right away

ok

don't do that, tp, we may need you for help later ;)

now, guerro and tp, you must probably work on the upper left box

heh

with Hurshy and the rest of the gang, I doubt you'll need my help

but i'm irritating

i only have 15 mins til i need to get ready for work ugh

!! you are not!

they might want less annoying help

hurshy: you are not annoying you are very sweet

no hurshy, look at your picture, you are cute and cuddly

guerro, where are you?

call it thorough and directional ;)

my CAT is cute and cuddly, yes.

AZ

heh your CAT ? lol nm sorry

you have to work on a saturday night? restaurant?

ew, second shift, eh guerro?

yes, Starbucks

ahhh

well then you will be plenty awake when you come home to finish :)

does he not look like a cat?

it will be after 1200 iron sudoku time before i return

i am already an hour behind as it is

oh, well you could always write down what you have on paper and finish it that way. you won't get points but at least you can finish it

that's true, this game is on central time, isn't it

what a dolt, how did i forget the AZ thing after that whole conversation.

yeah, i'm on central time so i always forget that

i'm on eastern, but i've really only been paying attention to how many hours it says i have left

maybe i will just do the one in newspaper when on break at work <sigh>

poor guerro

oh i did the naked thing in the top left too! thanks guys

hmmm, maybe that came out wrong

okay going to get ready for work happy sudoku'ing

bye guerro!

bye guerro!

bye again hurshy

bye!

see ya

bye all

LeslieAnn, you found one in the top left corner?

i don't remember there being one in the top left... maybe i missed it but i hope you haven't made an error, leslie

um, no, but i eliminated a few numbers by using the naked 5 method

ahh

TP are you seeing a quintet also?

no

leslie, i think you might want to back up...

from what i have, the left-hand column + middle-hand row can only be 1,3,5,6,7... but, i haven't saved it as a checkpoint so i might go back

check each of those boxes carefully and make sure you haven't left out any possibles

I think you might have left out a possibility in the top-left cell

crap... ok, going back... probably just to eager to say naked five again

lol

hahaha

no, a slightly different bit of logic is need in the upper left.

if my top-left cell didn't have one other number in it, you would've have been 100% correct

*needed

oh you're right, i missed a 9

:)

GOT IT!

hooray lem!

:) congrats, lem45

hooray!

congrats

just popped over to babble, chatroom is quiet - hadn't been a post in almost 20 mins!

whoa

any nintendo ds players here?

prob'ly cause the grid was so small, i was talking with 2-3 people earlier but we were it

oh, i thought it was saturday night, everyone out having fun except us sudoku geeks

either that or many old hands have been scared off by the huge influx of newbies

Hurshy, who is your icon on babble?

right now, it's julia roberts

is anyone else having problems with typing things in and they're not posting? it's happened to me about 5 times today

I thought so

black and white day, and she had that dress

tomorrow is mother's day

(in the UK)

leslie, do they stay in the box or disappear

disappear here... actually having the same problem on babble, but those messages would stay

if they stay in the box, i think it's just a delay and if you wait it will go eventually

leslie, i think the chatbox has been slow, that's happened to me a few times... but what i said DID show up, just not right away

hmm... yeah there are some glitches although i haven't had them today.

makes me look like i'm slow, there's a convo and i comment on it 5 minutes later ;)

but we know you are not slow

oh all right, no worries then

i like the name leslie. i also like meredith.

leslie is the name of the town my husband used to live in

is a pretty name

it's served me pretty well, except in middle school, when kids delighted in the fact that it starts the same way as lesbian. had a bf who liked to call himself a "leslian." but i imagine everyone has problems then no matter what the name

ack! what a horrid thing for him (your bf) to do!

lol, that is true leslie.

no worries, kicked him to the curb a long time ago ;)

i remember a full house episode (ugh) where stephanie was being called step-on-me and wanted to change her name to dawn bc she thought no one could make fun of that

but then her dad pointed out ways it could be mocked.

and then they sang, dawn dawn dawn dawn dawn dawn dawn dawn dawn

yes!

the bonanza music.

and something about dawn-er and blitzen.

i always remember the snl skit with chris farley where he wouldn't let his wife name the kid anything cause he said how it'd be made fun of, and then the pizza guy delivered a pizza for mr. asholey

dawn-ald duck.

lol

and the SNL skit with Johnny Hildo

and he meets Mike Bagina in jail

or maybe it was dumas... anyway, you get the picture

heehee tp... ah, if only snl was funny anymore

arent hard puzzles supposed to give you 5 pts?

I know.... some of the young guys aren't too bad, but all in all, I think it's going downhill again

it switched, santa, from 1,2,5,10 to 1,2,3,5

starting to remind me of the Anthony-Michael Hall/Tim Kazurinsky years

oh yeah thats right

i started it last night but couldnt figure it out, so i wrote it down and worked on it here at work

shoot i should have done some of the experts when they were 10 pts ;)

im on my lunch in the break room

I'm totally stuck again

man I hate logic

leslie, it's possible that doc g went back and changed 'em all

tp, ponder the 5's in the left section.

i had to guess a time or two..sometimes it worked out and once i had to start over

that's what I've been staring at, but again...... nothing!

if you hate logic why do you play, tp dear?

because I'm normally pretty good at logic

tp, where might the 5's go in the upper left box?

i mean the 5

grammar, grammar

2nd row -- 2nd column or 3rd column. boxes 5 and 6, I guess

grammar schammer!

(that coming from someone who writes for a living)

hmm, maybe it wasn't 5's....

what was it...

heh

finally back....... let's see now.... where was I

where might the 5 go in the bottom left?

hey mama, you missed a crazy poetry slam

2nd column, 1st row or 3rd column, 3rd row -- boxes 2 and 9

Hi LeslieAnn...... I have the greenest grid right now!! I am trying out hurshy's method of attack...... I think I am stuck already

hmm, what about the 4's, maybe it was 4's...

i am also greened-out, but have been doing lots of chat and not so much deducing

hang on Hurshy

anyway, here is the thing. there is some number, can't remember which, that can ONLY go on the right in one of those sections, meaning it cannot go on the right in the other sections.

Hi everyone. I recognize most of you from Babble. Knowing how kind and generous everyone is on that site, I was wondering how we would help one another here. Y'all are great!

hello, quick

Hi Hurshy!

so what is this method of yours?

revise done for thesis!!!

it's not really my method, it's just logic, the inevitable logic of sudoku

oh CONGRATS, nat

hi hurshy! little sis is back

scroll back a bit, quick, we like to call it the naked method

Hi Quick

hi btwrt (which stands for...?)

tee hee. Hi Mamabear!

uhh actually, it means nothing. word scramble

i never counted on it sounded so bad phonetically ...

lol

buttwart?

i won't tell you how i pronounce it. she doesn't like it. :D

ah, well, you've gone and done it!

did i guess it elf?

yes. lol. BAD

my sister would LOVE that.

and here i was trying to be nice :D LOL!

i must tell her about it.

some combination of bethany likes writing ... lol

oh, you never told me that! interesting.

oh nat, now you've caught me, i actually came here and didn't work out... ;)

elf, perhaps i should introduce you to my sister, it sounds like your minds work the same way

and because i'm dumb (and was by myself) i was like, oh that one looks good

lol

is it too late to change it?

teehee, I wont tell