Done, no green.

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Wonderful to see a lively debate going on. I doubt anyone's views have changed, that's the beauty of the freedom we enjoy, being able to express our views. Ultimately though, we have to have someone governing us and making rules. We can shape them, we vote parties in to change them for the better. At the end of the day, perhaps the world should be looking towards the Scandinavians. They seem to be the most happy and yet they pay the most tax! Perhaps they have actually grasped the meaning of fairness.

if i lived in a country that surrounded me with tall blonde women that needed help keeping warm in the winter, i'd be pretty happy too!

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I second Phil's thoughts. It's great to see discussion, and I particularly appreciate the international flavor, the experiences of those outside the US. We in the US can, and must, learn from others. And I again ask the more conservative contributors: What rights or freedoms have our international friends sacrificed in order to obtain good health care, good education, etc? Having experienced excellent health care in Canada for 16 years, I chose my own doctor without government control.

Difficulty score 20. No green.

Janetb: Maybe the insurance companies weren't the problem. Remember it was government policy that brought about the situation where everyone gets their health insurance through their employer. If your husbands health insurance was a private policy, changing jobs would not be a problem.

In fact insurance portability is a big problem. If you move from Illinois to Wisconsin you will probably have to get a new policy because state governments put so many regulations on the insurance industry.

HK: you bring back memories of the old Chicago Stadium and the mighty Wulitzer.

drwho: insurance companies are a huge problem. I know a case where an insurance company gave preliminary approval for a joint replacement, the woman had the surgery based on the approval, then the insurance company changed its mind. Woman was on the hood for $63K. Doc and hospital negotiated it down. Granted, hooking insurance to employment was a post-war policy, but a bad one. Time to change (like the rest of the world).

It seems to me that the main crux of the latest discussions is how much of a free reign does Capitalism get to intrude on our daily lives. The proponents of deregulation would say that Government is the problem. The free market will solve all our problems. Privatisation is the answer. Unfortunately corporations are by definition entities created by and allowed to exist by government. Unregulated Capitalism is a license to steal. Join the IWW :-)

Ideally, the purpose of our government should be to ensure the wellbeing, safety, and freedom of it's citizens. Within that context, it seems to me that government (whether federal, state, or local) is in the best position to provide services such as health care and education, without being driven by the profit motive. On the other hand, capitalism has it's place. In theory, when there are many entities competing fairly to sell a product, the result should be lower prices and/or a better product. However, regulations are still required in order to prevent fraud, ensure workplace safety, and protect consumers from unsafe products. It is also essential to prevent corporations from becoming so large and powerful that they can buy politicians and elections, and hence rewrite the regulations in their favor. Also, if a company becomes so large that it eliminates all meaningful competition, then we no longer have the hoped-for goal of capitalism bringing about lower prices. It appears evident that the actual goal of capitalism is to create increasing wealth for those at the top.

janetb50 bingo!!

tuco & janetb50 - double bingo to you.

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Education has only gotten more expensive and worse for our kids since Pres. Carter created the Dept of Education and the Federal Gov't took over. The same will happen with health care. They will both be fraught with fraud, waste and abuse and our tax dollars wasted. These types of programs belong with the States where the money stays closer to the tax payer.

Whenever the Fed Gov't starts pumping money into anything, the program gets ruined and the beaurocrats (sp?) start grabbint power.

drwho - ah, the old Stadium . . . Where the rafters shook! Where I saw my first big concert, sophomore in HS - Jethro Tull (not really a heavy metal gal, but 'Bouree' is one of my all time favorite songs.) :)

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EZPZ. Plenty of moves at all times. 9.

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etcmoore A previous Department of Education was created in 1867 but was soon demoted to an Office in 1868.[3][4] As an agency not represented in the president's cabinet, it quickly became a relatively minor bureau in the Department of the Interior. In 1939, the bureau was transferred to the Federal Security Agency, where it was renamed the Office of Education. In 1953, the Federal Security Agency was upgraded to cabinet-level status as the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

The United States Department of Education (ED or DoED), also referred to as the ED for (the) Education Department, is a Cabinet-level department of the United States government. Recreated by the Department of Education Organization Act (Public Law 96-88) and signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on October 17, 1979, it began operating on May 4, 1980.[2]

The Department of Education Organization Act divided the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare into the Department of Education and the Department of Health and Human Services. The Department of Education is administered by the United States Secretary of Education. It is by far the smallest Cabinet-level department, with about 5,000 employees.

Our education system suffers not by too much government interference but by not enough attention paid to it. It is also under attack by the privatization proponents who want our school tax money to go to pay for the vouchers for "charter schools"

I always liked the Hawks. Stan Mikita was a favorite player. I read his biography. I once had a puck whiz by my nose off the stick of Marcel Dionne when he was playing for the Red Wings. He was playing in an exhibition game against the Sabres at our new arena at the time. He was laughing his ass off at the look on my face. My favorite team was the Bruins with Derek Sanderson my favorite player. After I shattered my spine in 1980 I didn't watch hockey for almost 30 years.

Ok, but where was I wrong?

Not saying you were wrong. Only that we had a "Dept of Education" in some form or other before Carter. Also that our health care system even before ACA has been fraught with waste and abuse. Look up the fine the present Gov of Florida had to pay.

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