Oops, must give George W. Bush his due for 2008. And yes both Hoover and Bush were big government interventionists, not laissez faire practitioners.

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drwho I have to say your interpretation of no effect on gun deaths in Australia is somewhat different to mine. A balanced viewpoint can be obtained here https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&e\nsrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjqoq7rs6bLAh\nVKx2MKHU1DDLQQFgglMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bu\nsinessinsider.com.au%2Faustralia-gun-control-\nshootings-2015-10&usg=AFQjCNGmCbGy5enxFPg-huu\ng1vWLUKt_bA

drwho I agree that rates are going down, but isn't that the point? It went down a lot more. You will never eradicate gun deaths particularly between crime gangs which is usually over drugs etc. This will always be there. However by reasonably restricting availability (its still easy to get a firearm licence here if you have a legitimate reason or a member of a club) you dramatically reduce the total number and in particular the mass shootings. Since gun laws were introduced here we haven't had a single one. That fact alone should make every US person think its worth looking at closely.

Yes you do have a massive problem but you seem to accept the idiots that run the NFA that its perfectly acceptable to have no background checks and hey, wanna buy a fully automatic assault rifle? Get real America. It will only be a swing of public opinion that will see common sense prevail.

Even if you had a firearm for personal protection, you would always get shot before you shot the baddie. If you have any conscience at all, you would observe the international firearm regulations that are drummed into you when you when you have the responsibility of possessing one.

No, the point is the rates have not gone down a lot more. There was an upward spike in gun homicides in 1996. 1997 the rate dropped but was still higher than normal. Finally in 1997 the rates got back in the groove and actually were a little lower than 1995. There is naturally some variation, but there seems to be a distinct downward trend that started long before 1996.

Firearm Safety Rules
The four basic rules of firearms safety, known by the acronym TABK, are as follows:
T - Treat every firearm as if it were loaded. Never assume a firearm is unloaded.
A - Always point the firearm in a safe direction. Even if an unwanted discharge occurs no one will be hurt if you always point the gun in a safe direction.
B - Be sure of your target and what is beyond your target. Make absolutely certain you can positively identify your target and what is beyond it. Make sure there are no other hunters, houses, vehicles, or other animals beyond your target in case your bullet, or shot if you are using a shotgun, misses your target or travels through your target. Never shoot an animal that is on the horizon as you cannot be sure of what is behind that animal
K - Keep your finger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger until ready to shoot. Also, make sure that branches or other objects do not contact the trigger guard or trigger.

The mere fact that decent people observe these protocols means the baddie, who frankly couldn't care and probably doesn't even enter his senses, will pull the trigger before you.

NFA? If you mean NRA, even they are in favor of background checks.

However, if the baddie doesn't perceive a threat as he knows its very unlikely you will be armed, as in Aus or the UK, he will rarely pull the trigger.

Why do you think UK police rarely carry firearms?

Maybe, but the baddie is not stupid and will probably move on to easier targets if he thinks he might get shot.

The UK police were disarmed by law.

Sorry, NRA. Sorry, but if they were in favour of sensible checks then they wouldn't have threatened to target all politicians who voted in favour of them

Maybe that's because those are the same politicians push more restrictive gun control, and not just background checks.

Actually the UK Police have trained officers who are allowed to be armed.Personally I favour the balanced approach we have in Aus where all Police who are qualified on a firearm each year cary one. At the end of the day, they are the first responders to any serious incident and cannot afford the tens of minutes to wait for an armed response unit if the public is to be protected.

And quite rightly should they be pushing for better controls. If you want a firearm here and you live on a farm and have sufficient space to discharge the weapon safely, hunt for feral foxes that kill your sheep for example, no problem as long as you don't have a criminal record of course, and you keep it in a locked strong cabinet with ammo in a separate strong locked cabinet. If you want a handgun you need to keep it at the gun club in safe storage facilities unless transporting it to a competition or other club. Not rocket science and you can still have use of the weapon. Nobody loses.Not much anyway.

How many times do we here of a child getting accidentally shot by a sibling who finds the loaded handgun in a bedside drawer?

n if one tragic loss of life is prevented, wouldn't you think it OK to have a little bit if restriction?

And the mass killings you get with such regularity. Surely common sense must finally kick in?

Your foxes must be bigger than ours. Good night, where you are G'day mate.

Just hungrier!

G'day to you too.

Almost forgot...difficulty score 20. No green.

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May sound strange, but I think the reason we are more prepared to learn from others in Aus is because of our diversity. Apart from our indigenous Australians who we sadly don't learn enough from (changing slowly), we are made up of a peoples from all around the globe. Fundamentally though it seems the vast majority choose to be Australians first and foremost, yet still keeping the best from their heritage.We like America are a young country (since settlement, very ancient lands and native people) but we also are a well travelled bunch, and we have extensive news coverage from around the world on free to air TV. I think its one of the great things about the modern world, the ability to visit and soak up the culture of other peoples. Brings us far closer to peaceful cohabitation.

What we should really learn from our ancient peoples, Indians, Eskimos, Aboriginals all lived in harmony with their surroundings. They only took enough to live off and would never over hunt an area, always leaving it alone to recover stocks. Now don't get me wrong, we now live in cities etc, but the principals remain. We have to get better at managing our resources and the answer is not pumping livestock full of hormones and foods they wouldn't naturally eat. I might pay more for a bit of grass fed steak but I'd happily have 100g of quality than eat 400g of average. Took me 50 years to learn so I would say to others, learn from my mistakes!

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Plug and Chug. 14.

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Dr Who. I didn't misread it. I just took his point about the stick and the axe handle means that labor creates all wealth. He was for regulation and against excess greed. It is today's capitalists following Frau Rand's selfishness will regulate itself creed that led to Greenspan finally admitting that his ideology was "flawed" Also look at all the crashes not just 29 and 08. They say the economy is cyclical but it doesn't have to be. It is just mismanaged and corrupt.

plus we all get into trouble when we pick and choose from any book. Whether that be the Bible, the Wealth of Nations, or A People's History of the United States.. Oops actually the last one is probably the least contradictory or fantastical. ;-)

One last thing tonight. I work at a major university in IT and during a task I came across an archive of declassified text concerning Chile. It always bothered me why Bin Laden chose 9/11 as the day to attack. Pinochet with our backing and help overthrew Allende on an earlier 9/11. I believe it was probably just a coincidence but I bet less powerful nations that have felt our big stick are aware of the Chilean 9/11

So much for one last thing. Chile is interesting for another reason. The "Chicago School" gang of economists used it as a sandbox to test their theory that complete privatization would be the best economic system for a country. Didn't turn out to well.

didnt turn out too well even. :-) last post promise!

Tuco: The crashes of 1929 and 2008 are unique in the length of time it took to recover. I don't think we have fully recovered from 2008 even yet.

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I guess you are right that the Chicago school experiment in Chile ended badly. But it seems the bad end was the result of abandoning the policies of the Chicago school, not the failure of those policies.

If they had just stuck with the arsenic therapy all their ills would vanish. If you aint ill it'll fix your car <-- Medicine Show by Big Audio Dynamite What's next? A military coup here? Hey it happened before according to the head of the Texas GOP. Sorry all first time my better half and I had a drink in about a year. burp