Done. 1 guess

Done, 3 guesses

Done 1 guess

drwho, always happy to accept constructive criticism, but I think Apple is trying to set itself up as an ethical company and they could still make significant profits without bending the rules. The legal loopholes need closing because they are hurting pretty much every economy and ultimately of course those that don't have big pension funds that invest in these companies. Services such as healthcare and education suffer. It will require global talks at government levels

start

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back to it

done, 2nd guess

done

This is why the U.S. should move toward Co-determination for corporate boards. A corporation whose main motivation is to maximize shareholders returns is worrisome to me. Yes they should care about it, but it should not be it's main mission. It should be to make the best product or provide the best service it can. It should value its employees over the shareholder because if the employees are not valued they will not produce at their maximum potential. If this is done the shareholders will benefit. This is my problem with Apple and other U.S. corporations who have moved offshore to chase the lowest labor costs. Maximizing profits at the expense of Labor hurts everyone except the shareholder and board members. This leads to the redistribution of wealth to the top we have seen over the last 30+ years. Trillions of dollars out of the lower and middle class to the top 1% and very little of that trickling down.

Don't try the argument that if an IPhone was made here it would cost 2 or 3 times as much. How much of the IPhone's retail price is pure profit? If WalMart raised the price of every item 10 cents they would be able to maintain their profit margin and pay their employees a living wage. If Apple made all their IPhones here and kept the price the same they would still be a very profitable company.

g/ng

By the way, that "everything legal is alllowed"-argument
is of course well known - but it is also well known that is
is wrong. Some things are illegal but very ethical and
some things are legal but very unethical. So stating that
businesses could/should maximize their profit by all
legal means is equivalent to stating that businesses
are a-moral, i.e. not part of the ethical system of society.

Tuco says "...A corporation whose main motivation is to maximize shareholders returns is worrisome to me. Yes they should care about it, but it should not be it's main mission...value employees over shareholders..."

Tuco says "...A corporation whose main motivation is to maximize shareholders returns is worrisome to me. Yes they should care about it, but it should not be it's main mission...value employees over shareholders..."

WOW!!!...where exactly do you think those employees put the BULK of their retirement contributions...government bonds? HELL NO! They put it in the advantaged company stock reinvestment programs...THEY ARE TEH SHAREHOLDERS!!!! Wow...you are a peice of work. Co-determined BOR's? With govt as a partner????? Holy CRAP!!! How did the USA create the largest ponzi schema ever invented? Answer: The GENIUS of gub-mint do gooders who authorized the program and sold it as SECURITY...and now, to keep it afloat (aka keep the ponzi scheme running) since the 'contributors' can no longer keep up with the out flow...the gub-mint has topped into the DEBT....

The basis of any sound (aka sane) solution to nearly any problem is to either keep the gub-mint OUT of the process or avoid their involvement...ESPECIALLY IN AREAS OF MONEY!!!

I unblocked chat to see if it had got any better since the election, I can see it's the same old BS, back to blocking it.

Ed, how do you block the chat?

Any stock market based retirement plan is more of a Ponzi Scheme than a highly regulated pension plan. Talk to anyone who retired with a 401K based retirement plan in 2007-2009. Most if not all employee stock purchase programs are just that, the employee has to purchase the stock out of his wages. In some cases stock is offered in lieu of compensation. They are still subject to the whims of the market. Many corporations today flush with cash from the recovery and record profits are buying back their stock inflating their value and creating a windfall to corporate heads whose compensation is based on the share price of the stock. Ponzi Scheme?? Give me a rock solid pension. Tax Free Munis. There are no guarantees except the little guy will be the one taking it on the chin when the big guys decide it is time to cash out. And then Gubmint (the little guys) will have to bail out Wall Street again. We have seen this movie over and over and over again.

done

Okay, what are the ethics of paying taxes?

I maintain that accusing Apple or anyone else unethical requires more than just the assertion. You need to provide some specifics.

And Tuco: you just can't bellyache enough about the little guys being victims of the big players. And yet, the 2007-2008 debacle you bemoan is the fault of your beloved government regulators.

Yes MrO, not everything that is legal is ethical and not everything that is illegal is unethical, but that generality does not prove that Apple is unethical and not paying their fair share, whatever that is.