just got it at midnite

expert... oooh

after a while I just got one number

1

is the loneliest number.

Yeah, I got that one too... it's pretty tough so far.

now I have 4 numbers

I would hate to guess this early

I would hate to guess at all: use your head.

you have to guess eventually with this one

Disagree.

I'm not done yet. I'll let you know when I take my first guess.

anyone went past the first 3 numbers?

I have four so far.

I just got 4

only 1st

I've got 4 too. So, again, anyone over 5 without guess?

not yet

I have 6 without guess, and think that I am close on some others.

I just got 5

I just got 5

And I don't know why that posted twice - sorry.

5, no guess

8 no guesses

got 5 too

I'm worried that i screwed up now since after hitting 5, the next 3 were easy...

I'm a little annoyed

Why?

I feel like I'm stupid

relax, lawfully. i only have 3.

Wait, wait, someone didn't feel stupid to begin with? That's almost a crime. Actually, what's the crime here is ending with a preposition. Sh!t.

I'm betting I've made a mistake. I found mine with "hidden pairs" mostly.

ok, itzie. what's a hidden pair?

i haven't used any hidden pairs yet

on behalf of all the people feeling stupid here...

thanks, that helps

It's when there's a box/row/column or something where there are two squares where there are a pair of numbers that have to be in those two squares... I SUCK at explaining things... sorry

no, that's good itzie. didn't know that was what they were called. thanks.

So, let's say in the middle box there are two squares where a 5 and a 3 can appear, but the 5 and 3 can be in no other boxes in that square....

Ok.

it just broke wide open for me

keep hunting, its all there

done

night everyone

g'night!

anyone else still here?

I am

glad someone else's doing this...

I'm still here too... but still unfortunately stuck where I was.

yeah and I am working on a guess after 4

mee too, feeling ever stupid

challenging

This one is much harder than the expert the other day

At least for me

i agree

Me too

i hv 10 & stuck

yep, that's where I am too

This should SO be worth more than 5 pts.

No guesses. Finally finished.

Had to start from where I guessed and found 2 easy ones.

start

Gee, this one was trouble from the start. Took over an hour to get it.

im still stuck at the 4-filled point... any clues on how to get the 5th?

chains chains and chains

wow at first glance not a lot of numbers going in...this looks like a toughie!!

Let's just say that, while I have completed it, the dent in my desk and my concussion were a steep price.

thanx - guess ill have to learn chains better...

Will someone please explain chains to me.

i got fifth filled, but am still using advanced crosshatching basically...

chains can be looked up at scanraid.com...

http://www.scanraid.com/AdvanStrategies.htm

Thank you

I'd try to 'splain but I'd just make a mess of it.

go

see you in an hour smooth_pappa, if previous posts are anything to go by ;o)

lol

if it takes me that long, I'll have to come back later. leaving for work in about an hour

but I can see this is a slow starting one

Well I am eating lunch...so I only have an hour to kill

hmmm... caching up to smooth_pappa in the rankings... must... play... more... puzzles...

oh darn... i have to go to work soon too :)

hehehe

hahahaha

danged real world ;)

moozey, it's lunch time there? that means you're in the future. What's going to happen?

I would say a damn tricky sudoku will be solved but perhaps not hahaha. So not a lot in my world....hopefully things will be more interesting for you

though a kids on hoverboards have just flown passed me

At least it's Friday... where I work, we're allowed (in the summer) to do 9 hours M-Th and then take 1/2 Friday off. So, I'm thinking of taking my son to the beach later.

lol

same here, andy, except the kid and beach part

oh that would be cool. I work for a US company and I believe they are allowed to do that too but just not here in the UK :o(

Wonder if it's the same company...

I don't know do you have the Time ;o)

same company as me, andy? or as Moozy?

I know we don't work for the same company. I work foir these guys: www.guild.com, and I know all our employees

Moozey... I work for Pfizer. Well, I work for a company that has me contracted to a company that has a contract at Pfizer...

My parent company is Time Inc

I fill out a lot of timesheets.

Ahhh...

;o)

question - i know that checkpoints work across browser-sessions, but do they work across days? im thinking of giving up and doing this another day...

I believe they do

only works if you are a paid up subscriber

but I could be wrong

he is. notice his icon?

I think so, H. One time I was working in the archives, and had set a checkpoint. I ended up haveing to leave before I was done, and didn't get back until after the weekend. When I came back, it had my check[point saved

which, btw, is subtle and fantastic

guess ill find out. i only got 5 filled and am tired of staring at it... (yup, im paid up) ok - thanx!

h's icon, I mean

thanx for the compliment...

then definitely works

HAHA! wow, I wouldn't have picked that up so early in the morning andy, thanks :)

18 filled in... this is a slow going one

DONE!

Gratz!

and yes, I used greens a couple of times

WO

thanks!

WOW

starting out is the toughest part... after a while, it really falls together

I really wish it would start falling together for me....

I wish it would start for me!!

you guys can do it!

Ah... No No Nanette... the play that Frazee sold Babe Ruth to NY to fund...

been staring at this for over an hour and only 4 filled in

I've only got 1 filled in LOL. perhaps I need a nap

Andy thats a fact I did not know about the play

It comes from being a Red Sox fan.

only one hidden pair that I see but it doesnt seem to leed very far

all right you all, I must get ready for work. good luck with the puzzle, ad have a good wekend!

me too... later all!

i probably shld be studying for my exam which is v v soon but here i m trying to work this puzzle out lol

alright, another expert... go

New record, difficutly score 101! The program used a naked quad and a lot of guessing.

uh oh, and I was hoping to finish before work...

How many points for a guess?

10 points.

did it use coloring on the 5's?

No, the program only knows cross-hatching, missing digit scans, virtual cross-hatching and pairs, triples, quads, etc. After that it guesses.

aww, no fun

it should do everything you can do by eye

The solver at the scanraid site does that and tells you exactly what it did at each step.

yeah, you told me about that last week

I had been doing about each of them up to the APE

I have to break out vi after that

easier just to guess

vi? VIsual editor?

yeah, to write out the possible pairs

can't keep track of it on the board

hi

go

My favorite editor!

^5

You must be a programmer. They like editors where the commands look like transmission line noise.

I should say we...

is this puzzle for real... there's only 23 numbers given.

yes

yep... been using eclipse though lately -- getting lazy :)

have anyone solved this puzzle...too difficult!

dr did

i got no. 1 but thats about it :-)

ah, naked triple in the 6th column

Moe did last night, it took him about an hour.

:) I did the last expert last night w/o greens

you guys are too good

took almost 2 hours

this may take me a day or so

I haven't, but I ran my program in analysis only mode to get a score.

im still doing the 16th..its another "header"

header?

oh, using the head?

im losing hair

been pulling them a lot lately :-)

did you get all of the 1s gris?

yep..

did you have to chain to get the middle grids?

yep..but now im doing an adrienne thread

talk about "too good for me"...

its a nice term for "guessing"

ah, I think I'm there too

I've only solved 5 cells though :)

oh well..im sure we'll rise to the challenge

got to go..its midnight now bedtime..ciao guys

ciao

Ah hah, solved 3 more

According to the chatter last night after 5 the next 3 are easy, but I'm still stuck at 5.

look at 6s and 8s down the left grid

OK.

all the 5s just jumped out

got 4th row :)

8th column

6th row

7th 8th 9th row

done

oh yeah

required some coloring, but I don't remember any quads

later dr

Enjoy work.

Is there any hints on where to start with this grid

H.I. Lady, use the greens.

Jeesh, so many experts lately!

This month sets a record, 5 experts so far and there are still 8 puzzles still to come.

And this one is so hard to get started.

ugh

I found my first one within a few seconds, but this second is tough.

Ditto.

Um Dr who i dont have greens

Got my second.

You need an autogreens?

Everyone has greens. After you click on an empty cell, hold the shift key while selecting a digit.

3.

Blind Mice.

Um sorry to sound ignorant but was does that do?

...or blind luck, in my case if I even manage to find 2!

i think i might've busted it open!

It puts a little green number in the cell. You can use them to mark the candidates for the cell.

aaagghh nooo!

OH ok cool thanks

Use the Alt key to make marks in red, if that is any use to you.

ok thanks

I like green

just finished marking the greens. doesn't look too promising.

My profile has Autogreens. If you are using the Firefox browser, cut and paste everything from "javascript" to the end... paste it into your URL finding rectangle of Firefox and click the green triangle.

I prefer to mark them myself. Helps me see things I may not see.

I always make mistakes marking them myself. Then I mess up.

thanks for you help

You're welcome. Not much happening with my puzzle. Still only 3.

I got 1 the obvious one :)

The second that I got was a virtual crosshatch. The third a normal crosshatch.

4. An easy crosshatch.

thanks i guess this is not the best grid to start as a newbie :)

You're probably right about that. But if you save your checkpoint you can try guesses. If there are not multiple guesses needed in this puzzle that usually works.

I dont have saves anymore, what i am doing is putting any i find in a word format grid and saving tht

That works.

kinda

goodnight

Quitting?

4. Going green.

go

Good luck spellacked. This one is hard to get going.

thanks, I see already

Greens help a lot.

Uh oh. Some mistake.

youch -- after one complete cycle of cross-checking with greens, I have exactly 3 spots filled in.

It's like that.

does this remind anyone else of passing a kidney stone??

nope, four

five, boy I can' t see

I'm going to take a break. Good luck everyone.

sorry, don't have time to finish (and haven't paid for checkpoinnts)

There's a naked pair in the upper-right that allows for some reductions.

there is? wow i'm crap today!

Well, it's a hidden pair unless you use virtual crosshatching somewhere else which reveals it as a naked one.

*continues slogging on*

is it just me, or is this the worst expert one ever?

nah, it just reduces slowly. I just found a triple along a column, let's see where it goes.

My program scores it 101, which is a new record.

aha, I knew it!

I'm not an expert or anything, but sometimes I get the experts....today I have one number!

I greened it after one.

me, too, vivi

me, too, OS

me too and I still only have one

yep

of course I am not concentrating fully - watching the kids play the wii

Use the perpendicular 9's that are looking at the top-left box to do some virtual crosshatching and reveal a pair.

yay--I see it!!

OS - thanks for getting me started on that one - intersections are the worst for me

Geez! I have found a whopping 5 numbers. lol

im at 5 numbers as well

yeah me too.

glad I'm not alone! lol

*lots* of intersections :(

ill say

definitely

I can see where I think the numbers should go, but it really would be a guess. I'm not ready to start that after only 5 numbers.

ooh, x-wing

ok, i gotta leave for an appointment, will pick this up later. May resort to guessing by then :)

hey, I just got my first number on this one. may be in for a long sudoku session.

I think there's some agreement that is one of the most difficult puzzles we've seen on this site before

i would have to agree w/ that

I can believe that. Still only have one number so far.

I'm still sitting at 5

im having trouble finding that x-wing that Krys is talking about

small breakthrough

found an 8. yipee

:)

Wow. You know when it's taken you 20 minutes to find your first pair it's going to be a long haul...At least it's Friday :)

indded. I'm still stuck on 4 numbers

just went tothe sudoku solver. It had to guess too and said there may be more than one solution.

Which solver was that?

do we know of anyone that solved it so far?

Sure, jawilke and moe. I don't think they had to guess either.

as in moedog, or the other moe something?

Just moe.

oh

this is hurting my brain!

well, i have other productive stuff that I have to get done, good luck everyone

dine

done hehe

sorry work was calling. I used http://www.sudokusolver.co.uk/

Maybe you should clear the check mark on the "Return first solution" option. That is probably preventing it from determining if the solution is unique.

it doesn't really seem to make any difference. You can't solve this puzzle logically.

Found two numbers via AIC, but I'm about to had back to work (on lunch right now)

Well, it does have a unique solution. The scanraid solver may be able to point you to techniques that logically solve it.

Of course you can solve it logically.

This is pretty much the best puzzle ever. And by that I mean it makes me want to drive something through my left temple.

lol nice way to put it! I decided to work on the archives a bit and clear my head....and remind myself that I actually DO know how to do these puzzles. I'll come back to todays later.

OS -- I believe sudoku has been proven to be an NP complete problem (in the general case of arbitrary sized grids), so no finite set of solution techniques exist.

There may be a finite set for the 9x9 grid though, but no one seems to know.

I've found advanced sudoku techniques a lot easier to understand after taking a course in symbolic logic.

Ah, but I have to go.

i'm not doing this. nope. no way.

lmao

wow. i give up!

ok, I'm back *cracks knuckles*

you know, you'll get arthritis that way

yeah, that's what my piano teacher always told me

this puzzle is pretty ridiculous. i found that x-wing you mentioned before, but i'm still stuck at 4

I have five filled in, and I've been playing the elaborate game of what-if

or maybe it wasn't the one you mentioned...

my most advanced strategy

yeah, I've got 8 right now by what-iffing

no, the x-wing i mentioned, although usually i crow about unique rectangles

ugh. no guessing chains for me. i'm just leaving the experts that i can't handle right now until i learn some new tricks

I've got 5. I've colored every number red that appears exactly twice in any constituency. And I'm looking for the x-wing.

Let me know if you want a hint finding the x-wing

I may have found it. Let me think a bit.

No, not it.

No hints.

promise :)

well, it took 4 starts, but I finally made it! this is definitely the toughest one I've seen on this site so far!

congrats, cathy!

Congratulations. Guessing, I presume?

I'd have to say my initial start was more of a guess, but then was able to figure it out from there

ahh... done. Took five rounds of guessing

filled in 5 squares!

go

I thought I got lucky with guessing & ran into a problem w/ about 6 squares left.

i have to come back to this one

wow... this was a real headache

Never in my life have I found an x-wing that actually did something.

go

starting over. don't wanna do this. need the points

and need a good excuse to procrastinate doing other things

i'm a little farther along than earlier.

ready to give up before i retire............

eat a grilled peanut butter and banana sandwich. it'll totally improve your outlook on this sudoku

I've had a long break from sudoku... why choose this one to come back to? it's nasty!

amen!!!

finally done

it was brute force over strategy though. good luck everyone :(

how did you do it? a lot of guessing??

3 or 4 guesses. I saved my work, then chose a pair to try.

3 or 4 guesses. I saved my work, then chose a pair to try.

uh huh, thx a lot, but no help to me, congrats che,,,,!!!!

wow, i got it on my first guess :)

3rd guess here too, swoo, glad that's done.

holy crap this is hard

Yes, it can be done without guessing!

(just not by me)

The techniques I used were cross-hatching, virtual cross-hatching, naked pair, X-wing, Almost Locked Sets, and Alternating Inference Chains.

The first 5 are relatively easy, you may want to use green immediately after the first one though.

After that the next 3 took a combination of AIC and ALS for me. Last night someone said that these were easy, perhaps I missed something obvious.

After the first 8 there was a bifurcated AIC (for lack of a better name :-), and then everthing opened up.