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KT, you may be surprised but our gun control laws here would not prevent you doing similar things here. For example you can hunt roos and wild boar if you have a suitable property or permission on one and you can have other rifles and some handguns to shoot at gun clubs or again on suitable land. What you can't do is carry a firearm in public or own one if you are convicted of criminal offences or are of unsound mind. We consider this to be a sensible balance of the right to own firearms verses the right not to be shot. Much the same in New Zealand. What we find strange is that you find this unreasonable.

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Penguin - You do not have to believe me, just google ICE agents in Chicago. Moving on . . . Just like in the rest of the country, ICE works poorly - arresting innocent or poorly identified people. But they do indeed make many arrests here. Of course you can drive freely in & out of Chicago, it's a very large, densely populated, people have to get to & from work, etc. ICE certainly doesn't have the money or control to patrol every inch of every border, nor should they. Last I checked you could drive in & out of NY, LA, Boston, Miami, New Orleans, Seattle . . . What point are you trying to make? As I keep trying to hammer into people's heads, the problem in Chicago, as in LA, Long Island (large MS-13 headquarters there), etc. is primarily gang related. People in gangs are all criminals. Gangs make boatloads of money selling drugs. People from suburbs will drive into the worst neighborhoods just for drugs. They have a huge market & are highly motivated to achieve their goal of making money & having 'fun.' It's a constant turf battle between gangs. You are thinking like a rational human being, you need to put yourself in the shoes of desperate kids, who think they've found a quick way into the good life. They become entrapped in a horribly structured business. They will go to great extent to protect their 'business interests.' Yes, we do have extremely strict gun laws. When I was much younger, I used to shoot. Gun laws were nowhere near as strict as they are now, and we didn't have nearly as many gun related deaths. We shot at ranges. It can be viewed as a 'sport in proficiency,' much like pool, but more deadly. This is yet another example of the deterioration of this country over the course of time.

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HK: KT wrote, "I oppose gun control because it is unconstitutional and, in America, completely ineffective. Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country yet dozens are killed there monthly."

I responded, "Chicago's gun control laws are ineffective because there is no border control (and there should be no border control for those traveling within the US)."

You, HK, responded, "Penguin - You are wrong. Chicago is perfectly abutting the border. as are most of the major cities in the US. The border zone is home to 65.3 percent of the entire U.S. population. The 'border zone' is 100 miles inland from any US border. Please stop spreading misinformation about Chicago, I keep saying the problem here is mostly gang related. Dontcha worry, I see plenty of ICE agents here. ICE makes it's share of gun-related arrests here."

Again, how am I wrong? You speak about ICE, but gun control and immigration control are not the same issue. They are tangentially related, but conflating these issues does not help explain either.

I am not a gun control expert nor do I want that to be where I spend my time. But I can read a bit. Apparently most of the Chicago guns come from out of state, Indiana and Mississippi and Wisconsin. Here's my source article:

https://www.chicagocriminallawyerbl\nog.net/where-do-all-illegal-guns-from-chicago\n/

Chicago does not, and in my opinion should not, have secure borders (nor should any United States city). The question of gun control, at least as I was addressing it, was about national gun control. The assault weapons ban should not have been allowed to expire. Instead I believe it should have been strengthened.

Phil - you write - "What you can't do is carry a firearm in public or own one if you are convicted of criminal offences or are of unsound mind. We consider this to be a sensible balance of the right to own firearms verses the right not to be shot. Much the same in New Zealand. What we find strange is that you find this unreasonable." First of all that sounds completely reasonable. In fact, that is basically the law in US. If a person is a convicted felon, or convicted of domestic abuse, or adjudicated mentally impaired, then they are a prohibited possessor and cannot legally own a firearm. Maybe one difference is that some states in the US allow citizens to conceal carry a firearm. In Arizona where I live any adult who is not a prohibited possessor can conceal carry without a permit. Most states require a permit or a license to conceal carry. What I have a problem with is ignorance of gun laws and ignorance of the causes of gun related deaths. Someone in this forum made a statement about background checks and assault weapons in relation to the shooting in West Virginia. Neither of these existing proposals would have stopped this tragedy since the killer had purchased the weapons legally. He used 1911 style pistols to do the shooting - which are not considered assault weapons.

EZest PZest. Moves in abundance everywhere you look. 7.