The British had concentration camps in 1902 already.

Actually, they were set up in 1900, and only operated for 2 years, in south Africa, during the Boer war. They had originally been set up as refugee camps. Sadly, over 26000 people died in the camps. The British have never set anything like those camps up since that time.

HK, I agree with you on the problem. I'm just saying that we can get better. The Civil Rights Movement has often seen setbacks and then progressed. I am hoping that this is such a time.

From a global perspective the concern is greater. We are destroying our planet at great speed. This must be reversed. Deniers of science are making it harder for future generations.

done

KT: We're putting people in cages while denying them basic hygiene, food, and medical care.

Yes, ugly and deplorable. We've earned that.

Well I for one feel much better now that we have properly labeled everyone. Add "stupid" to my label since I fail to see how labeling solves any problems.

Last I heard, you were claiming that we don't have any problems, that they were all lied to and knew exactly what they were getting into, so, yeah, I'm willing.

You've yet to tell us what those silver tongued lying devils said. I mean, what were the lies that were told that persuaded them to come get put in cages?

KT - I am only calling the kettle black, because some people seem to have a great problem differentiating color. Have you heard of the DSM-5? That is purely a labeling system. The Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Psychiatric Disorders. It clearly defines parameters, criteria which need to be met, in order to make a diagnosis. With a diagnosis, the physician knows how to proceed with treatment. Same thing with any differential diagnosis - OCD is not treated in the same way as PTSD. There, now I hope you understand how labeling solves problems.

Certainly correctly identifying the problem is a crucial step towards solving it. However, acknowledging that there is a problem is even more rudimentary, and KT has, apparently, yet to take that step.

Faced with the ever-more undeniable facts that the US is currently violating its own laws in order to deliberately mistreat and abuse people, KT has, however, boldly stepped up to identify the ACTUAL problem here: Meanie liberals are being uncivil to him. They're CALLING NAMES!

You think he has actual pearls to clutch?

I think I called myself a name. Nowhere did I say you called me a name.

KT: So, what are those lies that makes crossing deserts and thrown into cages worth it?

I mean, I know you're not going to answer the question, because the question is unanswerable. But I'm going to keep asking it, just to keep reminding people that your internal story makes no damned sense and you're unwilling to question it.

KT - It does not behoove you to portray the village idiot and act all innocent via your sarcasm. We all know you are an intelligent person. In this case, you seem unable to stay your party line on this topic of caging people and instead resort to focusing on the irrelevant. I'm pretty sure we would all welcome open discussion with you. You are former military - I know you clearly understand the importance of labels. I, too, have worked for the US Government. They love their manuals & they love their labels. I know you know this.

I think he's trying to convince someone--himself, maybe, or a hypothetical onlooker--is that he's not losing the argument because he's refusing to have it.

However, the fact that he was having it right up until his position was pointed out to be, frankly, ridiculous, and that he immediately afterward frantically began to attempt to change the subject has not been lost on anyone.

Except, possibly, him. People manage to fool themselves in all kinds of ways.

https://tinyurl.com/y3ns9xrv

https://tinyurl.com/y6yx4cw2

https://tinyurl.com/yyda6zkl

Here are three examples of what I was referring to. My prediction - You will trash the news source or say that this is right-wing reporting, etc. The reason I play the fool is because I am a fool if I think that anything I say will be taken seriously in this forum. As far as I can tell, not a single person in this forum has changed their mind in any significant way based on the posts in here.

SJ - I do not care if I win or lose the "argument" because the argument is immaterial. Yes, there are people in cages. There have been people in cages since there has been jails. Yes people are suffering. I do not deny that. My point is that many are suffering either voluntarily or because they have been lied to by those who want to use the for political ends.

HK - thank you for the compliments. I will take roses anytime. Unlike you, my view of America is not framed in fatalism.

As an outsider I value the opinions read here and I do assume they are basically serious - except for the obvious tongue-in-cheek. It may not change my views however it gives me a better understanding of what is happening in the respective countries rather than what is in the 'edited' media. So thanks!

SJ - You stated, "People manage to fool themselves in all kinds of ways." Do you include yourself in "people?"

I get frustrated because most of the discourse is about the US. However, I imagine most members of this group are also from the US, so I mostly keep quiet about the politics.

But. has it ever occurred to anyone that if we had no countries or borders, then so much aggravation would not exist

Imagine by John Lennon. We could have a better world.

...but then, the UK didn't seem like Euro thing, hence Brexit??

Half of the UK voted one way, half the other. Sadly there was a lot of lying during the campaigning. I found it utterly unbelieveable that Wales voted to leave with a much higher majority when most of our transport infrastructure has ben EU fuinded for the last 30 years.

is there still talk of doing another vote on it?

is there still talk of doing another vote on it?

People would like another vote. Referenda are not legally binding. We could have another vote if there was political will to do so. However, our new prime miniter is a much more hard line right wing idiot guy so it wont happen

I shan't ask you what you think of your new PM then!

Am I to believe that the man who married Yoko Ono is the philosopher on which we should base our efforts towards global peace?

Our new PM is a total and utter self serving twat!

Hey, Knight Time, there are many worse heroes

KT, is there a correlation between marrying Yoko Ono and being mentally ndeficient in some way?

you be the judge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdZ9weP5i68

LOL

digondda, if there were no countries or borders, people would still tend to form local communities of common ancestry, language, culture and values because it is an instinctive behavior to trust people who are like you more than people who are different from you. The idea that it is the enforcement of boundaries which keeps people from forming a uniformly distributed mix around the world is nonsense. In America, prior to the arrival of the white men, the tribes of native Americans observed no boundaries and had no concept of land ownership, and yet there was plenty of aggravation between tribes. In present day Europe, people are free to travel or live wherever they choose, and yet national identities are still strongly associated with the populations of the essentially borderless countries, and hatred and bigotry run as deep as ever. In the UK, freedom to choose where to travel or live has existed for much longer, but the identities of the once separate countries which comprise the UK are still battling one another for either dominance or independence. John Lennon's imagining was just that, and there is no way it can be considered an evolutionary road map.